Sure Fire Hit? - Gary Lavin of Vit Hit on the ups and downs of sweetness, selling and sachets.

fungalboy
Hi Gary. Ah, yeah, absolutely delighted to have you. Um I have been aware of it hit for a long time I had no idea that it was a so um so new relatively speaking I thought it'd been around for decades and decades. Um, but also that it had an irish connection. Um I'm I'm a little bit intrigued. Can you explain to people who don't know what it it is what it is.

07:59.86
gary
Here. Yeah, well first of all the irish thing that was deliberate I didn't want anybody to know it was irish because I grew up in a time when it was embarrassing to to have an irish brand because irish brands didn't really exist kind of pre-carrigo that was kind of the only thing we had. And so I wanted to be internet have an international flavor I wasn't putting any nepreun switch emrocks on it but you knowvitus to take it back a little bit. Um I created a low calorie vitamin drink and low sugar vitamin drink back in 2000 and the whole idea behind it was I was kind of.

08:25.20
fungalboy
Um.

08:40.65
gary
Almost annoyed at seeing large conglomerates peddling what I consider poisonous sugar to people and putting nice fluffy brands on it and just sticking it on a shelf and having the power to get it onto lots of shells and everybody would buy it. I was a roppie player I prayed professionally back in the day and I knew the damages that sugar could do to you but back then the general public didn't know so my overall arching idea was can I not create something that is actually good for you that isn't going to take away from your health. It's going to add to your health. And that's kind of how the idea of vid hit was born.

09:15.97
fungalboy
Um, and that you it's very interesting that you describe it that you deliberately wanted to um, present it as as a kind of international but it absolutely always has been in my mind I thought it was owned by Coca-cola or Pepsico or somebody of that ilk. Um, but you you actually. Did you start in the irish market and then expand outwards.

09:36.94
gary
Yeah, yeah, the way I would look at it is I I basically did a few international shows years ago because in my um enthusiasm I thought that everybody in the world was going to bite us overnight and that wasn't the case but what ended up happening was I did a few international shows. And for years we were actually losing money in the company and then I realized I need to cut back and cut my cloth and come back into Ireland and do it properly and get Ireland done so kind of stick a flag in the ground and then from Ireland then we moved into the Uk and from there into bes from Holland Australia the ue and then we kind of went across the globe that was. Was the general but I would definitely say to anybody listening don't try and take on the world try and take on your town first and then grow from there.

10:23.10
Foxy
And Gary I know you mentioned that you're a professional roguey player but did you have an interest in kind of the drink sector. Um why you were playing is or was it hit just kind of a a thing that popped into your head you mentioned about the sugar thing but was this something that. You felt was it needed before you got to that point.

10:39.56
gary
Um, I was actually always into healthll and I was always into my own business. Both my parents were entrepreneurs or we used just call them business men businessoman back then and so I always wanted to and I came through the amateur of rubwe and and flipped into the professional era. 90 95 rogueman professional I got a professional contractor over in the Uk. Um, but I kind of felt like a bit of a loser playing rogby because I I thought that you need to have a job as well. So during my time of playing roguebrie when I wasn't using my brain to do something else. Was selling proteins createines and that kind of stuff to the irish team and to all the professional teams over in the Uk. So that's kind of where my interest in health came from then from that I realized men didn't spend money on themselves back in the day if you wore a moisturizer you were an oddball or tearality or hot an oddball in in the gym. And that's true and how things have changed so men didn't spend money on themselves. So I had to get out of that business and I flipped into women's vitamins and I had created this company called Vitz and then from that I actually just didn't have an interest in taking tablets because I couldn't never swallow pills so because of that I always wanted to. Basically see if I could take away the pill out of swallowing out of the daily routine and try and drink it in a nice tasting bottle with the sandwich or something like that and that was the general 15 year process that I got to in in 2 minutes

12:07.65
fungalboy
But that that is is a succinct journey but what you ended up with is a drink that as you described was low sugar. Um and was a mixture of Juice vitamins tea and um and water is is. Is that basically what vit it is in ah in a sentence.

12:26.59
gary
Yeah, um, it it is and and it isn't it. It. It takes it has the reason why it took so long so I started the project in 9098 and only registered a company midway through 2000 so to two and a half years of trying to get my flavors right. It it takes a long time to get things that are healthy to taste good for you. So my whole idea was I wanted something that is so much better for you than sugar drinks but has got to taste just as good as sugary drinks because I consider myself to have a lazy palate and I consider all our customers to have lazy palettes. So basically. You know if you're a drinking luxate sport or Coca-cola or something that isn't good for you and you go oh it hit gosh that might't taste great then because it's got some vitamins in it once you taste it if it doesn't taste just as good as your daily pleasure. You're gone. You're never going to buy it it again. But if it tastes just as good or better which we do. Then we'll have them for life and that's why you know it's successful I believe.

13:23.11
Foxy
Yeah I Think that's a really good point on on the taste of it. So I ah played rugby to absolutely know her near the level that you did but you know we we would have been on the the protein shakes and stuff after after training and and a lot of them just taste really bad and they can disguise up whatever Flavor. You want? um and everybody would eventually find their particular brand that they could stomach I would say rather than enjoy. But that is something a vithead has managed really well is to make it taste good.

13:52.23
gary
Yeah, thanks and you know we use um taste houses in Germany that I would fly over once every year or so when we're creating a new flavor then they send me the products and I'd say yes, no yes, no, that's got to be sweet too. Sweet. That's got to be kind of I suppose like ah, a downgraded Somalia is suppose what I am. But I've been doing fews and I know exactly what I want I know exactly how to bring forward it sweetness or drop it back or anything like that. But I think too often you know people often ask me why can't larger companies create cool brands and there's lots of reasons. Ah but 1 of them is is that. And the main reason is I suppose that employees. It's not life or death for them. They're not going to lose their mortgage and get kicked out of the house. They'll just get another job if their project fails. So when they create products I regularly see large companies doing a big launch of some product and they stick it out in the chef and I try it and I'm like that doesn't taste good. And the consumer subconsciously is just going to pick that up and go it's fine and they'll ever go back to it so there needs to be layers on products both with the brand and with actually what what the product tastes like and I think it's really really important. The product has to taste incredible if you're going to be a customer for life.

15:01.64
fungalboy
But about that taste you've mentioned it before that the sweetness that's required because it is a low sugar product but it it tastes sweet So how do you achieve that and how do you know what level to aim for.

15:18.37
gary
Um, it's kind of a touch and feel kind of thing. You know you try and bring forward like an essence of orange and a lot of it's to do with nose as Well. So Sometimes when a product can taste really good, but but you don't get the the nose for it. You can actually put an aroma in to kind of. Hit somebody first. Um, so it's just it's taken a long time to to get to this. You've got to reduce the acid sometimes to to bring a flavor forward Sometimes you have to drop but it it does become quite technical but I am not a technical person so I literally just sit there. And I'll say taste too sweet. How are we going to? How are we going to knock that back or it doesn't taste sweet enough. How do you bring that forward and there's ways of masking that um that that you can do in a natural way.

16:04.92
fungalboy
And you mentioned to me when we had a previous conversation something that you could have knocked me over with a feather but you said that um, when you're working with these international flavor houses and and developing product. Um together with your in-house team. You said there was a discussion about the fact that um european tastes. Certainly some northern european tastes are actually potentially sweeter. We've a sweeter palate than even North America which I just don't understand intuitively.

16:24.39
gary
Says.

16:30.64
gary
I know I know it's it's a bit of a hard one to get your head around I flew to a taste house in the states because we we do sell some product around New York and we were working on trying to copy our flavor profile which is not the sweetest split favorite profile at all. It's their you know. I always say when I first created it was like a snapple with 50% less of the sweet less sweetness. So it's kind of something that you know the everyday man woman child would enjoy and when I went to the states and I said look you know, copy that flavor and they said oh you know americans like. Blander product and I'm like what are you talking about like America has sugar in everything and said yeah, we do but but but our taste profiles are not mashed that and and that is one of the reasons I believe why the product which was sold to Coca-cola for four point five billion dollars vitamin water

17:09.40
fungalboy
Is.

17:24.15
gary
Was successful at the us and not successful anywhere else because it was a very bland watered down flavor. Um americans loved it. They all went for twenty odd years ago um sold hundreds of millions of bottles every year and then it went into the Uk France Belgium and completely un utteredly flopped all across Europe and across the rest of the world.

17:34.47
Foxy
That.

17:43.99
gary
And so that's kind of the proof of it.

17:47.17
fungalboy
And ah would that have been sort of a a key competitor of it hit.

17:54.30
gary
Yeah, so um, once we had stateed alaim in Ireland I went across to the Uk in 15012 and I approached all the retailers and they all looked to me and said ah god not another vitamin water I said no no, this is different and they're like yeah sure.

17:57.20
Foxy
Ah.

18:08.87
gary
So basically they had taken out vitamin water so boots for instance, which was one of the first retailers to list us. Um, they coke stroke vitamin water had 73% of the health drinks market on the shelves and boots and I have the stats to show it and that was we got listed in 20 13 and by 2014 Vit Hitt had 74% of the health drink market and vitman water was delisted.

18:36.97
fungalboy
So that that's great that in a nutshell that sounds like an amazing you know overnight success was it as simple as that you put it on the shelf or did you have to actually roll up your sleeves and and and make it work.

18:47.29
gary
Yeah, so um, that was booths. There's other obviously a lot of other retailers in the us are in the Uk. Ah 1 of them in particular Tesco I got listed with Tesco but we were listed down at the. Dry chef down the back with the rice crispies and if you know anything about soft drinks business being down the back of a shelf with nappies and rice crispies isn't going to sell your products you need to be in the fridge. So I kept getting onto the buyer and I kept saying look would you please? you know, stick us in the fridge and they kept going. No, you know we don't see you ready sale being that strong and I knew it was so um. In December of 2014 after waiting for 3 years to put me on the sheves I kind of said well I'll screw this I'm going to do it myself so I got on the back of a mo headt stuck a lot of bottles into the the back beam of the mohead and drove in the sleet and rain across London for about six weeks and sold it myself. Into 50 stores and what I said was I walked into the store talked to the manager and I said as the owner of Coca-cola been in here today and they'd look at me and say no and I said well I'm the owner of this brand fitted. We stick us on the shelf. So um I I also found that there was a little bit of an anomaly. In the Tesco shelving that they could put 10% of their products could be local so I was a local guy basically driving around I lived in Naning Hill at the time so they took it on the shelf from 50 stores and at the end of six months I hired a young irish guy and took him in a mope let him go five months

20:20.40
gary
The better weather and made sure to be kept those 50 stores along with the other 3 or 400 that we had in the dry chef and at the end of it I paid a lot of money for internal research and I found that vited out of the secondary brands were number 1 3 4 and 5 bestsellers in those stores and yeah.

20:20.83
fungalboy
Ah.

20:36.90
gary
Rest is history. We got a lot of nice listings from that.

20:38.70
Foxy
When you mentioned previously about some of your competitors that put a new product out and people will taste it. But I think a lot of reasons people taste it is because there's usually a big advertising budget behind it. But you've gone a very organic route on this and do you think that also helps set your product apart.

20:55.66
gary
Well I wish we had the money to make all those all those claims we we just we've done that because we had to we you know so our Instagram targeting is is very very good. We highly target and we get.

20:55.98
Foxy
A little bit as well.

21:13.87
gary
Ah, much higher response than any of our other competitors. Um I don't know whether we care more but the way we always look at is we're competing with supermodels Kim Kardashian and granaldo so for for everybody's eyeballs so you've got to look really bespoke. You've got to look beautiful and you got to look like you care which we do all of those things. So. I think that is a really important part of it. Um, you know we we get now that we are as successful as we are both in the Uk and Ireland we still see companies coming up with copies of vitette and there's another story I don't know if you have time but a company did try and copy us in much larger company than it a turnover a billion. Tried to copy us about ten years ago and I was forced into suing them to to keep them away from us because it's really important to defend it. You've got to be like a mother bear with your brand. You have to really care about it and went to a lawyer and the lawyer said look There's a fifty fifty chance of this winning and. I said okay and then I went to another lord she said and she said to me I'll nail this so she nailed it and I had to put forward a lot of money which I didn't have um so it was ah was a big risk for us. But if we hadn't defended our our territory I was going to go be out in the street because this product was. Almost identical to vitus copied all flavors et etc et etc but we ended up reading the case and they had to remove all their products off to shelf and it's never been seen again. So that's one of the little hardred lessons.

22:35.61
Foxy
But but that that must have been quite scary for you at the time though to to be facing down a huge corporation like that as you're trying to small scale grow a business almost off the back of a moped um to have to really get out and defend it like that is is quite a big move.

22:47.92
gary
You no I loved us I love taking on the big guys I think most entrepreneurs do I don't know where the competitiveness comes from probably 1 most likely from playing Ropebi years ago now I love you know, giving the big fell as a black eye I just think it's kind of what makes me tick i. You know we can move faster than those guys we can create faster products better products and then they're just they lazily try and copy you and that just annoys me and you got to take it personally and actually um and a further one. It sounds like I'm I'm quite vindictive but I'm not at all I've never picked a fight in my life but you've you've got to. If someone attacks you you've got to attack back because you know it's it's all you have is your brand. You know these guys can get another job and move to another company I can't this is it. This is it for me.

23:36.71
fungalboy
And if if I take it then as an example of of that sort of personal stake that you have in the business and so you obviously grew the brand and so test market in Ireland did as you said put a flag in the ground proved that it could be a success in Ireland then you you actually moved. To London um, you know and and pounded the streets and where so was that a model that you followed for other international expansion because you you moved relatively quickly from from the success in the U K Outwards didn't you.

24:00.11
gary
Um.

24:07.51
gary
Yeah, so that was all based upon being successful in Ireland because once we actually got a new distributor in Ireland and overnight our sales probably went up about 8 to tenfold the previous distributor we had kept telling me that our sales were going. Well. And our sales were were going up about 20% a year from a very low base but actually our amount of stores were going down. So once I saw that data and I moved to a new distributor sales went up about 800% overnight. Maybe I think it was 1000% overnight. So that suddenly gave us the success and inverted commas to be able to afford. To send me to the Uk because with all of the greatest intentions Ireland is the smallest consumer market in the whole of Europe so you're never going to really make a massive success your business so went to the Uk and then got to a stage where that was running pretty well and I hired a a young guy who's still with us. And Ryan he wants to show over in the uk and he's much much better at running it than I was and then I went off to Australia in 2018 and set it up there hired a guy to look after that and I'm currently in Dubai looking after the Middle East here so we've just moved into Kuwait. And yeah, we're just expanding across Ua at the moment.

25:25.38
fungalboy
That's a huge personal commitment I mean I you know okay living and Notting Hill you know it doesn't sound like ah too much of an imposition moving to Australia you know living Dubai you've picked relatively good markets to to move to um, but.

25:36.67
Foxy
The.

25:37.70
gary
Um, yeah, that's my secrets. Yeah.

25:41.60
fungalboy
At at the same time. That's that's quite a challenge isn't it like to uproot your your your family at times and and your your all your different relationships or or is it something a challenge that you just relish.

25:51.74
gary
That's great. Thankfully my wife loves to travel and my kids are very young. So the London move I was solo I was on my own so I that was that's easy. Australia was a little bit more challenging. We had a six month old girl at the time. And we moved over there for about I think it was six months and it was just an incredible experience. I still look back on it as being one of the best times of my life I mean we're living around Bondi like at County Bandai like every other irish person and it was just it was just a ah, really nice experience I I never see these things as challenges at all, you know.

26:21.60
fungalboy
Ah.

26:21.36
Foxy
Ah.

26:27.38
gary
Challenging would be me trying to become an accountant and get a degree. You know that's that's challenging for me. This stuff is fun and it's easy and and I enjoy it.

26:35.32
Foxy
I Think it's quite incredible that you're concentrating on opening new markets. But at the same time you are developing new products as Well. You haven't just stuck with the the bottle on the shelf and getting it into the cooler. Yeah I think in the last year or so we've seen an expansion into cam sparkling version of Vitish. You've got saches. You've got juice for kids name as well. Um, it's really incredible the directions that you're taking to business in.

27:00.72
gary
Yeah, well look. Um, we we have really good people working for us. My brother who is a lot sharper than I am pretty much runs the day-to-day business. He's managing director based out of irem. We've got a team of 16 people in Ireland running it. So there's a proper engine there. So if I get hit over get run over by a bus tomorrow. The company wouldn't even hit a speed bub. Maybe you know creating the the new brands that I do. That's what gives me time to do that they might slow down so the reasoning behind that was again staking the ground our five hundred Mill which is our main product of low calorie vi drinks they're on the shelf in I'd say 95% of stores in Ireland. So I was kind of saying look the the market in Ireland is now becoming mature and we need to look at the supermarket cheves and see where we're not so if you take a zigzag across your average Tesco orone stores in Ireland we're only in 2 spots we're at the front in the fridge and then you walk all the way to the back and we're at 4 packs at the back so that journey then. You're missing a lot a lot of opportunity so we created a kids's range to catch you in the fridges when you walk by the kind of dairy fridges. We have a kids range for that and then when you walk kind of through the pharmacy area and for online we have this new effervescent products. So yeah, it's what I love to do I love to create new new products new skews out of out of the range.

28:20.43
Foxy
I.

28:22.31
fungalboy
So that's a classic opportunity to to develop a a a broader base for you to enter more categories to be seen by more eyebas to to have more locations more real estate in in in the shop um does that come with. You know expectations where you you have a short period of time to prove yourself or do you think that because of the success of the your mainstays your main vitamin five hundred Mil vithead do you think that that gives you more um credibility with retailers to. To back you for longer in these new categories.

28:57.84
gary
Definitely in Ireland yeah I mean we still have a huge fight on our hands in our fastest growing market which is the Uk. Um, but yeah, and in Ireland we've had incredible support from the retailers the whole time and and you know I I like to think that we're giving back because now. Vitte is actually the sixth bestselling and soft drink of any kind in Ireland so we outsell valvic innocent Balyow and you name us we we outsell them so it it is a mainstream brand in Ireland and we want to become a mainstream brand in lots of other territories. The Uk is a little bit tougher. They're starting to kind of. Believe the hype with us. Um, so we now have out of the health drink market the uk vidage is responsible for 56% of the health drink market and the product is twice as big as the next competitor. So when we have those statistics which takes a while to build up. The Uk retailers are very statistic led so we got to go in there and show them look. You know your competitor is selling x amount you know you need to really have a look at this and take it on. Um and it's it's a tough It's a tough grind in the Uk. But yeah, you know the. Retailers in Ireland are always open to in fact, they ask us. They basically say look you're selling so well we need to see what else you guys are doing so the reasoning behind this very basic reasoning behind each product was the cans are because it's like they're lightly sparkling I think it's 49% of population.

30:22.40
gary
Don't drink steelele products and video is a stele products so we wanted to put it into can again. It's more sustainable that was the reason behind the cans that was launched about two years ago the kids was launched because I saw serious white space that people are either selling water or highly. Sugar inuced juices. Um, so I wanted to create something so video kids is all natural. It's got 84% less sugar than juice. So you're not filling your kids with all that sugar which which leads to all sorts of problems too decay obesity et etc, etc. Um, and and then obviously the effervescence was because people couldn and don't really drink vetted in the morning and I just kind of wanted something to ah for the tip to look after that occasion as well.

31:06.16
Foxy
I would say the I'm I'm an absolute convert to the sasches for the effervescence in the morning I I will admit that the the first time I made one I did make the baraca face before I I tasted us which you you know when you go to taste it and it's like oh and the flavor is just incredible.

31:16.34
gary
Um, but.

31:24.00
Foxy
It's ah if anybody hasn't tried it yet. It's a much more vibrant color. It's a likely affervescent that I would say and just that it's a full on fruit flavor that punes you in the face.

31:32.55
gary
Thanks yeah, that took 2 years to perfect that was a real long haul and in fact, we were supposed to launch it a year before it ended up getting launched and it kind of went to the backburner and was just dragging forward. And eventually by the time the project had come around I wasn't that excited about it anymore because you know it's only been period to everything but by the time we launched it I thought that online at video.com. There's a nice plug but when you go on Visitd.com we we sell a lot of products directly to people and and um.

31:48.75
fungalboy
This.

32:05.34
gary
When we put it on online I thought oh this is going to maybe sell fifteen twelve percent of our overall and that would have been a moder success. It's actually selling over 35% of our online sales. So people are go mad first I think again, that's because you you named a brand there that is. You know, almost a commodity They're very successful. Rocka. They pretty much created the effervescent business. Um, but it's it's you know we're all natural. They're not right? So we have stevia planned sweetening the product and it's very hard to get the taste right? So I mean I must have tasted oh I'd say fifty to a hundred different Pageuchs of. You know of stuff that we were doing and I was in labs when I didn't really want to be in labs wearing wearing a and a little net hat. Um I yeah I don't really enjoy it. But it's part of the thing and I just refuse to bring out even 1 product that doesn't taste incredible because. If you do people will just see your brand in another way. So when you take a visit you expect it to taste great and I don't want to ruin that expectation for people.

33:07.72
Foxy
And you you mentioned the online model as well. I find it actually really interesting that you can ah purchase from your vitist.com but you offer a subscription model which for something like the the sachet and and even the juice for the kids is a really. Interesting way that you just don't I can order it and then I don't have to worry about it and it's going to land at my door. Did you get a little bit of pushback from the retailers that you've worked with when you went down the online model.

33:31.31
gary
Um, no because they actually through through their research. They actually see that if you buy something online. Um and you walk through the store you've already tried it and you like it. You're like oh they's vated like ah god just grab it so no, actually they're not They're not that threatened by it yet. Um I I still think we're way behind. Certainly in Ireland I mean and I think we're way behind even the states now on purchasing stuff online obviously that was extremely accelerated through covid and that was the reason why we had to start selling online I honestly didn't believe that people would want to buy our bottles and get and get them delivered to your door I just you know we were always. A traditional industry type of product and obviously when everything closed down we were like actually we start selling online so we had it up on our website within four and a half weeks I think and we started selling the products that way and yeah, and then it's just morphed into this this thing that really pays for surf now and we've got very strong online sales. And the subscription model is just growing and growing because fans of the product actually don't want to have to go to the store weekend we get and so so that it just seems to work.

34:37.15
fungalboy
But I'm also fascinated by the move to Sasche's makes it so much more presumably accessible and profitable for people because you're you're now sending a relatively small, relatively light, high value package. Um, you know through the postal system or through the delivery system rather than you know something which is you know the? ah the idea of I think you mentioned to us before in a previous conversation. The shipping water over water you know is an expensive and and costly thing to do and and perhaps not even that sustainable whereas the the effervescence make it a much.

35:04.56
gary
And.

35:14.72
fungalboy
More attractive proposition.

35:16.55
gary
Yeah'm I'm actually thinking back? Um, um, where I first saw a subscription model and I was actually in a trade show about twelve years ago and I met this young guy he looked at bed 18 he was probably like 25 and he said to me I said well, what do you do and he says I've just started this company called Grays. And I was like what is this and he said well you know people take a subscription model and we send them like little snacks through the post and they eat them in their office. Um I thought that is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard a crazy angel being worth I don't know half a half half a billion or something like that. So I'm just thinking back on my original inspiration for this. Ah, but yeah, so if obviously you can see on the podcast. What the product is like but it's ah it's a pouch which is very malleable so you can actually send it directly through the post and there's 14 in in 1 pack and this 30 and another pack so you can just stick it right through the post. So yeah, it was deliberately designed for that. It's really light. It doesn't cost a lot to send it to people and so we can reduce the price on it and make it more valuable for people and then they can have it at home and whenever they feel like they want to defend themselves or to get a bit of energy or to hydrate then you can just grab one of them out of your.

36:10.37
fungalboy
Um, yeah.

36:26.29
gary
And your upper drawer.

36:29.45
Foxy
Um, one thing I really wanted to congratulate you on as well. Gary is your your branding It's really fabulous. Um, every product looks like it belongs to part of a family but the the bottle label in particular, it's ah. To squeeze that amount of information onto a front label I think is quite a challenge to numerous brands and you've managed to communicate absolutely everything that itd hit does and the color of the liquid inside without somebody having to turn the bottle around.

36:47.17
gary
Ah.

36:54.24
gary
Yeah theres there's actually really interesting story to this. So um, what I set the company up in 2000. The original company was called vitzvitz and I lost money for fun and it wasn't much fun for a bit five or six years and eventually i. Took it to I think was done Larry technical college and they had a marketing course there and I sat in the back and I listened to market research that went on and 1 kid turns around and he says oh vis it must be a german product and in my head I thought v it zd meant vitamins and everybody else thought it was from Germany. So um. That spawning out altogether so I spent about three weeks waking up in the middle of the night with nopad by my bed this is before we had notes on our phones and every day I'd write down every night I'd wake up and I'd write down what every different name was and what I kind of figured then was I don't have the budgets of you know coca procctor and gamble to call it any random name. Um, and people would have to figure out what it is through advertising I didn't have those budgets so I had to put what it was you know into the name so vid hit is pretty self-explanatory. So once I made got the Vid Hitt name I had to get a decent branding so I discovered this butler. Over in the Uk who could make a nice wide-mouthed bottle because before that it was in those kind of small-mouth bottles that could get a traditional glass bottle of Cocaco and so I had the bottle and I had the product and I now had a brand name but I had to brand it so a friend of mine had just used this young branding guy.

38:27.76
gary
Dave Fitz um and he's still he's a company called Dave Fitts Dot Com I think it is but he's ah he's a branding guy and this is a long long time ago. So I went to him anyway and I said look you scrap fits scrap everything we have just keep the bottle keep the flavor and come up with whatever product you whatever ideas you come with. So I came back to him but two weeks later and he had the storyboard and he had a story in front of the storyboard I wish I'd kept the storyboard but I lost it in him in one of my moves. Um and he had the labels stuck I had 6 labels and 6 different labels stuck down so I looked at it and I said na David don't like any of those. And he goes ah damn I really thought one of them would work us if no don't like it and literally as I was leaving I turned around and I said hang' got a sega so I'll get one of the empty bottles from the car it we'll fill it up and we rip one of the labels off and actually stick it on the bottle that is the label that you see today and that was probably fifteen years ago I stuck it on the bottle I was like oh my god I nearly missed this. This is brilliant. It looks great. So that's actually where the visit hit logo came from The only thing I told him actually was hit should be maybe a target so that's the kind of the the round target but yet Dave did a great job.

39:33.45
fungalboy
I think there's an interesting um learning it's something when I've been involved in similar discussions in in the past there's certainly a huge piece for me which is that looking at something on a page is not the same as looking at it on a product. And and for me over and over again particularly in the alcohol industry and particularly when I've been involved in spirits branding projects people look at brands on their screen which is maybe ah 18 twenty four inches from from their eyes. It is not how it looks in a bar. It's not how it looks on a bottle. It's not how it looks on a back bar. You need to print them out mock them up onto a bottle and then place them ten or fifteen feet away from you not 10 or fifteen inches that

40:13.53
gary
Yeah, yeah, 100% and the other thing as well is once once we had the product we have what we call a rainbow effect so you've now got the nice label and every product that we create has to be a different color to the original one. So if we stick and we actually even have the the color cadence. Written on our brand book. So if we have new distributors and they've got 5 products. You know you've got the orange one. You've got the pink 1 You got the proper one and you just kind of go that way. So so when you look at it. You've got the white background of the labels and you have the back the background color which takes exactly what you were just saying well, you've got to have shelf presence and I didn't want to have. Tons of color and that's why we did. We have a white background with a pop of color on top of this and white means health to people. So I think that's really important as well. That's one of the messages.

41:02.90
Foxy
And I think it a really good thing that it does is it calls it feelings and emotions and a function so you know for example, boost detox. Um, lean and green I think is is the other one that that Springs to mind. Yeah, and it's like that you buy the bottle for the moment that you're in.

41:13.52
fungalboy
Hydrazure.

41:18.74
Foxy
Which I think is is really well done.

41:19.80
gary
Yeah, so I think the first thing is the name vitish like people who don't know it and we throw it on the shef now we've launched a couple of years ago now in Australia you look at it. You go vid hit a simple message must be vitamins and you know then you're walking so you have like point 3 for a second to make a decision and. Once you take that and then you sit down with the product you tasted and you go oh that actually tastes good and then it's all about what else the product is and then you start looking at the ingredients then you look at the back you look at the little kind of fondidus that I write on the back just to kind of get people more engaged with the brand and it's just a bit to you know, give the brand a bit of personality. And which is kind of I think it's an extension of me a bit of madness in there. So I think brands have to have a story they have to have debt to them. They can't just be like oh here's a product that has vitamins take it and best to look with this. But so yeah, there's certain layers of it that when you start to turn the bottle. There's little kind of hidden messages and stuff that you mightn't see for. Three or four months and suddenly you say oh wow what what is that

42:19.30
fungalboy
But all of this is you know with the benefit of of twenty plus years of of hardcraft and and now you know an internationally successful product. Um, but do you think that the the kind of entrepreneurial journey that you go on is is for everybody. Do you think there are key. Attributes that an entrepreneur has to have in order to to get through the the the mod in order to ah eventually succeed.

42:47.81
gary
I have this conversation with my wife. She thinks that entrepreneurs are born and I think the basis of every entrepreneur you have to have some confidence and then if you take it back? Um, you know where do you get that confidence you get it. From your parents and you get it from school and people who you hang around with so both my parents are entrepreneurs. My dad was a publican he he owned the old orch she did in Ruth Farnum he created that pub and then the Storgan Orchard so so there is a a definite booze link to this to this goalll? Um, and my mom. You know has launched a couple of hotels and choose to have fashion shops and they're slightly different people in that my mom is a little bit more reckless her her saying is ah when she's driving a car orange means go faster. So I think I have a bit of of my mom in that on my dad is a bit more like my brother who who. Runs to show for us. He's a bit more linear thinking. But if you kind of take it back on where I got my unfounded confidence from was through sport I I was good at Robi. Um I wasn't particularly good to what I call the national memory quiz which is our leaving search in Ireland um. I never had a great memory. So I understood things but I just couldn't repeat them so rogueby was my thing I had very happy childhood and I came out school thinking I could achieve absolutely anything and both my parents always told me that I could and then playing Robi being successful at it.

44:17.90
gary
Gave me that feeling so 1 thing I discovered very recently and I'm really interested in this now because I have two young kids and I'm kind of thinking you know for me the most important thing for them is to have confidence and I think that's the basis of a lot of things if you don't have confidence you know you can't go out and sound. You can't quit create your own company and etc etc. Um, but ah recently I was coming home in a cab in in Ireland and the cab driver turned to me and he says oh do you have any kids I said yeah at the time only had a daughter and before my son was born and he said did you hear about the the forbes magazine article and I said no and he said ah he said 90% of women in Ceo roles in research that they had done had played competitive ah sports in high school or in college and I was like can't be true and I went home when I Google isn'ts sure enough 90% of the 860 women as ceos that they had interviewed had played compared with sport now. What does that tell us it tells me that you know gives kids confidence it helps them learn how to lose and which you need to know how to lose as an entrepreneur because you get kicked so often. It's just frightening.

45:25.88
fungalboy
There.

45:28.82
gary
So you need to learn you know I got dropped many times you you this hell for me, you know because Aton's the greatest struggle player on Earth wasn't wasn't um, but sports learns gives you camaraderie lets you know how to play a team it it teach you How to lose it teaches you how to win.

45:34.36
fungalboy
The.

45:46.69
gary
And it's to teach you how to be humble and adjusting. Sports is is incredible or alternatively something that your kid is good at I think it's really really important to find something that your kid is good at and because I think 1 kid any kid is good at something and put them in there and encourage them to do that because if you're good at 1 thing. Doesn't have to be school work doesn't have to be ruby. It could be dungeons and dragons or whatever kids are good. It doesn't matter as long as they're good at they can get confidence off the back of that and I think that is the real ingredient for becoming entrepreneur.

46:15.58
Foxy
I remember reading an interview with you a number of years ago I can't remember the publication but you were saying when you you you had to retire to injury quite young. Um in in rugby. But I think was Victor Costollo was the player that you picked out. That after a game he he was out talking to the guys in the suits and the business guys and everybody else was kind of having a bit of a laugh but you kind of saw that as I need a career after ruby like this may not last forever I do need to do order things in my life and kind of model that direction. It's probably something that ruby clubs have gotten better at since. Um.

46:34.43
gary
You know that.

46:48.41
Foxy
But but you not not to put a shine on us. But you may have been a little bit better set up for post rugby career and by following that model.

46:55.52
gary
Yeah I think as well to take it back to kids I think it's really important who you hang around with you know, a rising tide raises all boats. All of my friends I would consider to be relatively very successful in their own business or or working for somebody else. A lot of them are kind of captains of industry at this stage. My age that I'm getting old and that you know uplong I enough you become. But yeah, the the victor thing always interested me. Um, he's he's one of my best pals and we played Robby all the way to school together and he went on to have a really good career but he was a very interesting case because.

47:17.76
Foxy
Um, yeah.

47:31.73
gary
After matches hes he's the greatest networker I ever met I mean if you wanted to get your pinns taken out tomorrow call victor and he'd phone the right person like it's it's incredible. What he's done and now he's over in the us he owns a flight school and he's building. Um airport hangers because he was a pilot and he's just moved into various different industries and he's very successful guy. Um, and yeah I saw him networking and actually I'm I'm not a good networker. You know I'm I'm in Dubai and I get invited to all these things and I'm kind like ah you know, really do I really want to go network and but I am good at sales and I think um, sales originally comes back. From having enough confidence in your product to be able to go out and say listen to the buyer this is going to sound better. This is a better product than you have in the shelf I'm believing it I think it's really important to to believe in that.

48:22.45
fungalboy
And if you were to kind of finish up on on a positive message for somebody listening to this who's thinking about um, starting their own brand whether it be an alcohol or or um, a and other beverage or or even outside that um, do you think that there's a key message that you'd give somebody. Starting out or who's who's just started the journey and is is looking for a little bit of um, you know inspiration.

48:44.91
gary
Yeah, I'd say do it on someone else's dollar actually um I think I saved myself a lot of hassle had I worked for coke or worked from Mars I probably wouldn't have lost money for 10 or twelve years like it were probably 8 or nine years of like I did. Um, had I worked for somebody a learned on their mistakes. You know you can build a little treasure trove and put aside one hundred Euros a month and then eventually you'll have enough money to open your own brand I would definitely say that and I would say number 2 is you've got to be pretty bulletproof. You're going to get a lot of kickbacks when I started. Selling vid up down the country when it was called wit and nobody bought it and the worst thing for a salesman is to walk into a store and they go it hasn't sold take it back that is just heartbreaking for anybody so you've got to be a little bit bulletproof. You're going to get a lot of kicks. But I always. Say that those many failures are steps on the ladder to actual success.

49:44.90
fungalboy
Brilliant well that is a extremely encouraging and positive way to finish Gary's been ah, an absolute pleasure. Thank you very much for your time.

49:51.89
gary
Thanks Bill and foxy I appreciate it. Thanks.

49:55.77
fungalboy
Brilliant. Excellent.