
Business of Beverages
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This is a podcast for curious and creative people working in the global beverage industry: from makers to marketers, from brewers to bartenders, from distillers to drinkers. Each episode brings you insights that are relevant to everyone in the beverage industry who wants to build their knowledge about the people, products and plans behind the liquids we love.
Host Will Keating and Co-host Pádraig Fox bring all their experience, wit and charm to interviews with guests who are a mix of true subject matter experts, cutting edge innovators and living legends.
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Business of Beverages is hosted, edited and independently produced by Will Keating. Pádraig Fox co-hosts in a purely independent capacity. All studio recording is carried out at Hellfire Studio. All music is courtesy of Roundstone and ©.
Business of Beverages
Is that a real job?! - Maggie Kimberl is a professional Bourbon critic & journalist. Dream job? Yes & No...
In this episode you'll learn why independent professional, unbiased journalism is vital to the long term health of the drinks industry.
With Foxy unavailable we jump straight into an interview with Maggie Kimberl. Maggie has been a professional critic and journalist covering spirits in general, and Bourbon in particular, for over a decade. The industry has boomed in that time but the dream job she once had is heading towards a nightmare. The twin challenges of declining media budgets and the increase of "influencers" peddling half truths for big bucks are making it harder and harder to make a living. Does it matter? Only if we want a thriving and worthwhile industry...
For more high-lights and low-downs follow @BizBevPod on "X" or LinkedIn
Business of Beverages is self-funded and hosted/ edited/produced by Will Keating.
Pádraig Fox co-hosts in a strictly personal capacity.
All opinions are those of the person expressing them at all times.
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00:00.28
fungalboy
Hello Maggie ah It's an absolute pleasure to be joined by ah Your good self.
00:06.44
Maggie Kimberl
Hello.
00:12.05
fungalboy
Can I ask you first of all, how would you describe your job? What is it that you do?
00:16.68
Maggie Kimberl
Well, the short answer is i'm ah I'm a spirits journalist or a whiskey journalist. the The longer answer is I'm the content editor of American whiskey magazine, a contributor to whiskey magazine.
00:28.31
Maggie Kimberl
I contribute to Covey Rise Alcohol Professor, um Distiller Magazine, several others. I built and I run Michael Veich, the Bourbon Historian's website. I am the Chair of Judges in for the World Whiskey's Awards in North America.
00:44.27
Maggie Kimberl
I am a constant, I'm a professional whiskey critic. ah So, you know, that's that's the longer answer. and And I could keep going from there.
00:51.95
fungalboy
Oh, that is an incredible bio. It's one of the longest and most interesting and distinguished bios from anybody we've had on the, on the show. I'm delighted you, you've agreed to join us, but is it a real thing as the first, first of all, like do people get paid to be a professional whiskey critic?
01:10.82
Maggie Kimberl
you know my My dad tells people that I don't have a real job, um but no, I assure you this is a real job. I actually get paid to do this, which is pretty cool. um you know there' It's not without its challenges, but it is definitely a real job.
01:26.19
fungalboy
Okay, so i'm and I'm very fond of saying that we're a drinks industry the or the beverage industry more broadly. um and As an industry, I guess that that implies that there's a whole multitude of roles that support that industry, everybody from the farmers who grow the raw materials to the the brewers and the distillers who make the products, the marketeers, et cetera, all of whom we featured on this show.
01:51.06
fungalboy
um Is it important to have journalists as part of that industry?
01:57.93
Maggie Kimberl
ah Well, certainly i I think so. There are probably some people out there who think you know it it doesn't really matter, but it is important to have an unbiased... you know I like to refer to myself as Switzerland. you know i'm I'm very neutral when it comes to ah the different brands. There are certainly brands that you know I have a lot of personal admiration for, um but you know that doesn't mean that I'm going to trash other brands or you know give them any special treatment or anything like that.
02:26.89
Maggie Kimberl
um you know it's It's important to have an unbiased ah source of information about what is going on in really and ah any industry. and You see this in a lot of different industries. There are journalists who cover manufacturing. There are journalists who cover the food industry.
02:43.10
Maggie Kimberl
um So it's certainly no different. This is an industry like any other. And where I am in Louisville, Kentucky, ah the bourbon industry is the largest or one of the largest industries in the Commonwealth of Kentucky. So, you know, there it makes sense ah for me to be here and to be doing this job.
03:04.67
fungalboy
Okay, but to what end? how How does it contribute to the growth of the industry or the its smooth running of the industry, do you think?
03:16.66
Maggie Kimberl
Well, you know it certainly has has a lot to do with the growth. And I don't want to sit here and pretend like I'm taking credit for that. But it it was a lot of different things. And when I started this 11 years ago, there were not um really any people who were completely dedicated to covering this industry. I was among the first people to do that. I i was a bourbon beat writer, so I wrote for a local publication. And basically, when there were any sort of bourbon events going on, I would go and I would cover those.
03:44.81
Maggie Kimberl
And I was really one of the only people who was doing that back then. And so you know those were the days when the bourbon boom was really just kind of percolating. There was something going on, and everybody was really hoping that it would lead to substantial growth, and it has. And it's, it's again, one piece of the pie of why that actually happened. you know A lot of that had to do with ah the openness of the distilleries at that point in time. One of the things that I've spoken a lot about recently is that, you know, back in those days, I could call up somebody at a distillery and be like, hey, I need to come out and take some pictures for the story. And they'd be like, sure, come on, come on out, walk around, take pictures of whatever. We don't care. Or I could say like, hey, I need to talk to your master, so master distiller really quick. Can you get them on the phone for me? And they'd be like, sure, no problem. And now, um you know, it was an abundance mentality.
04:38.56
Maggie Kimberl
So that was part of what led to this ah boom in the bourbon industry, the broader American whiskey industry, the broader global whiskey industry, was that there was this abundance mentality that you know we don't have anything to hide. We want to to you know we want people to have access to all of this information.
04:55.44
Maggie Kimberl
you know, that's only going to help us in the long run. And now we're starting to see a little bit of a fear-based mentality where it has grown so big that now there's a fear that it's going to collapse out from under us.
05:00.14
fungalboy
of them.
05:07.42
Maggie Kimberl
And so when I call up these places, you know, there there have been several times in the last year where people have said, we don't want to participate in this story. pass. And I'm like, what do you mean pass? I'm not I'm not asking you to admit to like murdering puppies. I'm asking you to talk to me about your blending program, like something that you should want to talk to to me about.
05:31.34
Maggie Kimberl
ah So it's really interesting to see how that piece of it has evolved. But really, you know the the spirits journalism side of things is one piece of it. you know The openness of the industry and willingness to share and and desire to get this information out to people was was one piece of it.
05:48.47
Maggie Kimberl
And then the other piece of it is just the general interest from people ah wanting to know more about like what they're putting in their body, people wanting to have things that are made locally. ah you know they These were all factors in why this industry has grown so so large, so fast.
06:08.17
fungalboy
And I think that that is kind of at the heart of it, the the latter point really, which is that for from my point of view, I look at it and I say, why do journalists exist or why what ah purpose can they serve? Ultimately, is that it is about educating and informing people.
06:25.65
Maggie Kimberl
Sure.
06:25.73
fungalboy
and and and that So you' if you want to sell something to people, then and you don't want to be a commodity where literally it's you know you're you're buying something just based off the product itself um you know ah looking identical to to the next product you need to educate people as to what differentiates one whiskey from another one spirit from another one bourbon from another and and part of that has to be to to actually open up the describe your differences, describe your purpose, describe your process, and find ways that do that imaginatively. And um I think honestly, so i'm I'm delighted that there's whiskey journalists and there's whiskey magazines and, and as you say, the broader spirits industry has has benefited enormously. I think if the, um you know, the figures I read recently
07:15.37
fungalboy
I know the spirits category has has doubled in the last 25, 30 years in in in the US alone, and and other markets have similar kind of trajectories. So all in all, I think journalism has served the industry well. It's interesting to hear, though, that that it's definitely it's definitely changing.
07:36.79
fungalboy
um and And do you think that some of those challenges are because um You know, it's no longer just journalism, but rather there's a competition between journalism and content creators or or influencers.
07:53.29
Maggie Kimberl
I think that's absolutely right. you know And again, it's it's a lot more complicated than just one or the other. It's not a black and white kind of dichotomy. There is definitely a place for good content content creators and good influencers. ah But there are certainly people coming on the scene who are saying, yeah, just hand me a pile of money and I'll say whatever you want me to say.
08:14.05
Maggie Kimberl
And consumers know. Consumers no consumers understand. like when it gets When it gets that far out of whack, um that's not something that you can really just throw your hands up and go, oh, well, we tried. I mean, that's actually damaging to your reputation as a whole if you're leaning into that ah solely, for sure.
08:35.06
Maggie Kimberl
Um, so it, it has definitely the barrier to entry to getting your message out to people has gone way down. And a lot of ways that's a good thing because, you know, we're not siloing information in ivory towers that, you know, only certain people have access to anymore.
08:54.88
Maggie Kimberl
But the flip side of that is anybody can say anything and have an audience. And, you know, just in the broader media landscape, when you're talking about, you know, like we have a lot of problems with this. ah We've had a couple of hurricanes here in the United States in the last few weeks. And one of the unfortunate things that has taken place is, ah you know, people are capitalizing on this tragedy to push a false narrative, which is actually endangering people.
09:21.93
Maggie Kimberl
And they have an audience for that because there is no barrier to entry. And so you know people are actually being harmed from misinformation. And you know that's that's kind of an extreme example of the dichotomy, but that is you know really the reality of this landscape.
09:38.82
Maggie Kimberl
So it's something that, you know, it's still evolving. The internet is still in its infancy compared to certainly other modes of um getting information out to people.
09:51.05
Maggie Kimberl
And of course, social media has only been around, what, like 10 years, 12 years, 15 years, something like that. ah Well, I guess Facebook came out when I was in college, so 20 years. But, you know, ah the the wide variety, yeah, the the ubiquitous nature of
10:03.30
fungalboy
ubiquity um
10:07.95
Maggie Kimberl
social media has just ballooned in the last decade and everybody's on it and everybody has a platform and you know it's a double-edged sword.
10:18.94
fungalboy
ah Okay, right. So but you know, is is is that just the the old guard, you know, ah bemoaning the fact that now the anybody can do it. Anybody can um you know can can put content out there. You no longer need a magazine. You no longer need the press pass. You no longer need to be on the inner circle, on the Rolodex of people that that the distilleries would feed tidbits of information that they wanted to. um has we not Have we not democratized um the criticism and the the industry
10:56.26
fungalboy
ah and allowed people to to actually look underneath the rock rather than just get the little slanted view that we might have given them in the past.
11:03.97
Maggie Kimberl
Well, and that's certainly part of the double-edged sword, right?
11:03.99
fungalboy
um
11:06.61
Maggie Kimberl
Because there are people out there that are doing excellent citizen journalism. ah We've seen that in the United States when it comes to covering you know protests and things like that.
11:16.64
Maggie Kimberl
you know There are people out there actually on the ground doing citizen journalism, which might which typically looks like streaming an event live as opposed to just reporting on it or something like that.
11:29.91
Maggie Kimberl
Um, but again, you know, there are people who are using it for, um, you know, informational, like trying to get accurate information out to people. And then there are people who are using it for nefarious purposes. So, you know, it's again, that double-edged sword of, yeah, it's great that everybody can, uh, you know, participate in this, that everybody can have a platform if they want it.
11:52.22
Maggie Kimberl
But it's not so great when you know there are so many people using it for nefarious purposes and and spreading misinformation and disinformation and things like that. So it's it's something where people just have to be you know really mindful of what's being said and and dig into it and figure out why and what.
12:09.45
fungalboy
OK, so if we have a ah slightly skeptical mindset, shall we say, sometimes that might serve us well. um If we bring it back, though, from those kind of very um you know extreme examples of nefarious purposes, um within the drinks industry,
12:26.76
fungalboy
you know if If somebody is out there creating content um that's being enjoyed and they're doing you know whiskey talk or or whatever it might happen to to be, um that's pretty harmless, isn't it?
12:39.00
fungalboy
or
12:39.41
Maggie Kimberl
Oh, yeah, for sure. No, I mean, there are lots of folks out there that are doing like podcasts and, you know, Instagram ah type things, and they're doing them for fun and they want other people to enjoy their message and have fun along with them. And that's fantastic, I feel like and that's been One of the things that has helped to build up the success of this industry is just the general interest from people who are doing this as a hobby and doing it for fun and doing it for the love of you know sharing this kind of thing with with others. so
13:12.22
fungalboy
But does it get problematic when people are peddling influence for for money to and then looking to create content specifically designed to push a particular brand or a particular narrative? Does it does it complicate things when when perhaps consumers might not be aware of the where the influence is originating?
13:36.55
Maggie Kimberl
Yeah, I mean, ah again, there's a right way and a wrong way, right? So like in the United States, I don't know if you all have this over there, but you know we have actually laws that when things are created, when you're paid for something, it's supposed to be denoted when you share that. um And sometimes people are taking money and not necessarily denoting when they have taken money for something. So that's certainly problematic, but you know really, there The other side of that is it's harder and harder and harder to make a living. And when people are finding a path toward actually making a living doing this,
14:15.61
Maggie Kimberl
If they're doing it ethically and they're following the rules and they're you know letting people know, hey, I took money for this, these are my guidelines for you know how I approach this and and whether or not you know the brand has the final say and all that kind of stuff, you know that's certainly a piece of the puzzle. And i I don't begrudge anybody making money in this industry for sure. I think that ah you know it's it's hard to make money being ethical and that's really kind of the problem that I have.
14:48.62
fungalboy
So on that, I guess this is comes back to the nucleus of of of why I picked up the phone metaphorically to to you in the in the first instance was to say that actually you you did something recently which I was blown away by and ah because people just don't do it, but you were honest about how difficult it has become to actually earn money as a journalist in this industry. so um and actually taking some figures and putting some figures out there. um So we've we've talked in the abstract about the challenge that that that comes from having journalists and content creators and influencers operating in the same sphere. But actually, you know the the industry has has changed and has changed to the point where the challenge now for journalists is actually to try and earn anything approaching a ah ah living.
15:40.20
fungalboy
and it Is it what motivated you to to take that sort of step and and to highlight things in such a fashion?
15:47.63
Maggie Kimberl
Well, you know, it's it's always interesting to me when people come to me and they're like, man, I wish I had your job. And I kind of look at them kind of funny and I say, you want to eat all of straight from the can at midnight because you've been working 18 hours for minimum wage and you haven't had time to eat dinner.
16:04.08
Maggie Kimberl
That's what you want. And they're like, wait, what?
16:05.60
fungalboy
No.
16:07.13
Maggie Kimberl
ah Because all they see is the social media, you know the positive side of the social media side of things, and they don't see necessarily the hard work that goes into it. and so you know i I really just want to address that first and foremost. like Yeah, this is a ah great job. I really, truly love and appreciate a lot of the relationships that I've built doing this, you know talking to the people in this industry who are super passionate about it and doing things.
16:37.43
Maggie Kimberl
uh, for the greater good, you know, planning long-term for being able to have jobs in Kentucky. That's a big one for me because, you know, when I graduated from high school, most of my friends moved away because there were not jobs here. And I'm a ninth generation Louvillian and, you know, I, there was never any doubt that I wanted to stay here.
16:56.76
Maggie Kimberl
But trying to find jobs back then was pretty challenging. And now that's not as much of an issue as it used to be. And I'm grateful for that. I'm grateful that my kids will probably have ah more options when they start in the working world than I had.
17:14.17
Maggie Kimberl
um so you know i I think that there are positive sides and then there are you know like some things that maybe need to be addressed. and It's not just trade journalism that is an issue, it's all journalism right now.
17:31.20
Maggie Kimberl
And one of the things that's kind of alarming is that we're seeing, ah you know you have to pretty much have a whole other job to be able to do journalism or you have to have another source of income or somebody, you know a spouse who can support you while you're doing journalism.
17:41.25
fungalboy
Yeah.
17:46.99
Maggie Kimberl
And you know i I fear um that that is going to ah really you know bite us in the rear in the long run as a society.
17:58.96
fungalboy
And ah to that point then, so, you know, you listed at the start when I asked you, what is it that you do? You listed, you know, a five, it could have been 10, it might even be 15 if you put your mind to it, different avenues by which you you contribute and you work.
18:17.84
Maggie Kimberl
Mmhmm. Yes.
18:20.29
fungalboy
And when you add all those up and you add all the different hours and the different um ah efforts that you make, Is this something which could be a job, a real job, you know a living wage for somebody, or or is it something that that forces you to treat it more like a hobby?
18:39.76
Maggie Kimberl
Well, and I mean, I think it's somewhere in between, right? You know, i I think that so part of the reason I tell this story when people ask me why you became a writer and I tell them it's a personality flaw.
18:51.41
Maggie Kimberl
um i I was always a writer, ah you know, all through school, even, and you know, I was on the newspaper staff in high school.
19:02.51
Maggie Kimberl
And then in college, ah you know i majored and I double majored english in English and philosophy, so I have two bachelor's degrees. And I recall being in one of these classes and my teacher my professor at the time saying, you know don't be a writer, you'll never make any money.
19:20.20
Maggie Kimberl
And that was just such a huge blow because I was like, well, that's what I want to do. That's why I'm here. Um, but I mean, and she was right. You know, unfortunately she was right, but it's a personality flaw. I can't like not be a writer. So, you know, there's, there's that piece of it where, you know, like if you work really hard, you might make minimum wage at it.
19:43.27
Maggie Kimberl
Um, and I think that's a deal killer for a lot of people and certainly it's not sustainable in the longterm. I've been doing this 11 years now. Um, you know, my kids are going to be in college soon. So there's, you know, a chance I'm going to have to figure something else out if things don't improve anytime soon, which is, you know, really, uh, kind of a shame since I've been doing this 11 years. I'm, I've literally won awards for how good I am at this. Um, and you know, can't,
20:10.62
Maggie Kimberl
seem to make it work. So I would definitely advise people. you know And it's it's the same thing when people say, man, I want your job. And I'm like, would you like to take a serious pay cut? Because like I'll trade places with you if you want. And and i I just want people to be aware of the challenges. Because again, you know on social media, it looks really fun and glamorous and all that kind of stuff. And it's hard work. It's really hard work. And I enjoy it. And that's why I'm still doing it.
20:39.25
Maggie Kimberl
um but You know, it's there. There are two sides to every story.
20:43.77
fungalboy
Yeah. and And when I reflect on my relatively limited experience in comparison to yours, I ah wrote for a time for the Irish Whiskey magazine. And um you know ah and it certainly it didn't pay me ah to to do it in terms of the effort that I put. Sergio was fantastic as the editor and and did pay me for my work. But I do remember sitting in his office and having a conversation with him ah going through and helping him um you know with a little bit of kind of editing stuff.
21:16.14
fungalboy
and um you know he And he told me that I was one of only two writers that he paid.
21:21.46
Maggie Kimberl
ah
21:22.00
fungalboy
And everybody else was contributing um for for free, ultimately. um And and that that was such a shock to me.
21:26.56
Maggie Kimberl
and Yeah, it's mind-blowing.
21:30.23
fungalboy
um Yeah, it absolutely. Because the the quality of of what they were creating was was just as good as what I was creating. I had just insisted that you know I wasn't going to do anything for for free. if ah In my mind, it was it was work. I hope it just doesn't mind me telling the story that it was work and therefore I would charge for it.
21:50.21
fungalboy
albeit that I charged a fraction of the time that it took me to you know and the effort that ah I put into to creating.
21:55.08
Maggie Kimberl
Sure.
21:57.55
fungalboy
I wrote articles that would take me you you know probably a week's work, and I was charging a fraction of a day to to do it. But I felt it was important that that um there was a there was a ah financial element to it, that it's it's important.
22:10.89
fungalboy
and And the fact that so many magazines really struggled to the the point where They just rely on on people doing things for free. And that I think that also erodes ultimately the quality of their output and potentially their long-term viability.
22:26.40
Maggie Kimberl
Sure. I mean, there have been several publications that I've written for in the past that, you know, I was one of the only paid writers for many of the reasons that, and and that's, that's another one of, that's another facet of why it is so hard to make a living because there are so many people who are willing to come in and do it for free just to, for that notoriety or, or whatever they're after.
22:47.33
fungalboy
Yes.
22:51.92
Maggie Kimberl
Um, you know, and that, that really, um, you know it It makes it challenging because at any given time, you can be replaced by 10 different people who won't even charge. ah so That's another facet of it. But you know for sure, to your point, ah the publication that I wrote for you know like a decade ago that I was one of the only paid writers, there were 10, 15 maybe writers who were not getting compensated at all at the same time. and so
23:22.87
Maggie Kimberl
you know it's it's interest and And that was shocking for me to learn because you know there are people that I recommended like, hey, I think this is a good writer. I think we should look at them. And then I circle back with them and they're like, well, yeah, I love it, but I'm not getting paid.
23:35.06
Maggie Kimberl
Like when do I get paid? And I was like, what why are you why are you doing this?
23:40.70
fungalboy
Yeah yeah and and you know I think it's probably very easy at a remove to look at it and say well you know that's just you know industry's changed print media is for all intents is you know is dead and and has has been uh certainly on life support for a long time anybody who watched was it season
23:41.93
Maggie Kimberl
So it's it is interesting ah to to see that dichotomy.
24:06.93
fungalboy
I was in season five of the The Wire, you know, looking at a struggling regional newspaper, just, you know, dying for all the different, you know, myriad of cuts, social media, declining standards. There's a whole host of reasons we could go into it. But if we just stick to the the really simple thing, like as a spirits journalist, you know,
24:28.46
fungalboy
Why should somebody who sits in a brand team who might be listening to this podcast be thinking, why should I take some of my A and&P spend, my advertising and promotion spend, and actually divert it away from social media influencers into buying ads in in a magazine or supporting something like a um you know independent journalism? is there Is there any real benefit? Why should the industry itself take money out of out of what it thinks is giving a ah return currently and actually put it back into something that but maybe they've walked away from and in the past.
25:03.36
Maggie Kimberl
And I think that is a totally legitimate question. And that's something that I've addressed many times in the past. um You know, I'm seeing a lot of those budgets being pulled away from advertising, you know, supporting journalism and put into something that they feel is safer and more predictable. And again, you know, I touched on this earlier and in in this podcast that consumers know, you know, they might not pick up on it right away.
25:31.51
Maggie Kimberl
But after a while, if all they see is these like saccharine sweet, you know like overdone, over the top accounts of how great everything, oh my God, this is amazing.
25:41.70
fungalboy
um boxing
25:48.70
Maggie Kimberl
People will will eventually, maybe not at first, but people will eventually pick up on whether or not something is truthful, legitimate, genuine.
25:58.97
Maggie Kimberl
you know And you have to have that balance. So I certainly understand why it feels safer, especially right now, you know, spirits is in a global decline in almost all categories.
26:08.00
fungalboy
on boxing.
26:12.55
Maggie Kimberl
ah You know, there's a contraction that we're in the middle of right now. ah There have been some really devastating reports out of some of the major players in the global spirits industry.
26:26.16
Maggie Kimberl
And so I understand why that fear is there and why that need is there to kind of control the message a little bit. And that can stem the bleeding in the short term, but it can potentially increase the bleeding in the long term.
26:41.85
Maggie Kimberl
So I think it's important to have a balanced approach and you know certainly support journalism just for the sake of supporting journalism.
26:41.89
fungalboy
Hmm.
26:50.31
Maggie Kimberl
I don't think there's anything wrong with that. um But you know really, the main thing is supporting journalism because you want to balance out the the paid media with the earned media because eventually people are going to pick up on it.
27:06.27
fungalboy
um And can I ask then, the guy I think that's those are wonderfully valid points and and I hope those of you who are listening, who have budgets and are making decisions about how you how you spend it, just think a little bit um more long term. We understand that you know you you obviously have end of year targets and and you be you may not be in the same role in three years time, but the industry as a whole needs to have ah resources and journalists ultimately who can ah promote it, hold it to account, but also to to inspire it and to educate the consumers of the future. So I hope that people ah take take cognizance of your of your message.
27:46.16
fungalboy
um But I have to ask ah another question, which is that um just more broadly speaking, we've we've described the difficulties of of the working as a journalist. um We haven't mentioned at all, or or maybe a better way to put it is, have you come across issues because you have a slightly different perspective. you It's a very pale male and stale ah industry in so many respects, even coming from from this part of the world. ah you know And you've been covering it for users here for 11 years. ah Was it difficult to break into you know what was might have been seen as a bit of an old boys club?
28:23.68
Maggie Kimberl
That's a great question. you know People ask me frequently, like what's it like being a woman in a male-dominated industry? And honestly, ah um i have never um I don't think ever had an issue with anybody from the producer side of things.
28:43.51
Maggie Kimberl
um The only people who seem to take issue with me being a woman are um the readers, the readership, or you know people at the festivals. Sometimes I'll go and I'll teach classes at f at whiskey festivals.
28:56.97
Maggie Kimberl
And I've had a couple of like really kind of bizarre interactions ah there. ah But as far as you know master distillers and the people who are working in the production side of things, I've never had any sort of a problem with any of them.
29:15.24
Maggie Kimberl
ah It's always been the people on the consumer side who have given me a harder time. ah you know like I had one guy who said I was a bad mother and and ah providing a bad example for my children because I said that I wanted to try a whiskey that he didn't like.
29:34.38
Maggie Kimberl
um but just which is wild.
29:34.61
fungalboy
so god
29:38.18
Maggie Kimberl
you know You have to have a really thick skin. um And I think that you know women go through the world with significantly more um harassment and you know issues then as than men do, generally speaking.
29:54.36
Maggie Kimberl
And to be a woman speaking authoritatively about something that men feel like is their domain, ah it's it's challenging. um you know I will say the overwhelming response has been positive. It's just every once in a while you get that really loud, um the loud objections from people who want to mean maintain their their place in the world.
30:21.70
Maggie Kimberl
and you know i One of my strengths is um not being afraid of that.
30:30.53
fungalboy
Well, i I think empty vessels often make the most noise. um so ah And and i'm I'm delighted to hear you say, you know coming from a production background but myself, I worked in in in breweries and laterally with distillers.
30:34.29
Maggie Kimberl
Yes.
30:46.23
fungalboy
ah I would echo that that sentiment. um you know I worked in very male-dominated environments at points in time, but the women who worked there were absolutely ah brilliant. And as far as I was able to tell, always treated um with the utmost respect. And and often, you know the the the slagging that they got and the was was equal to um that their their male colleagues and as as as a sign of that respect.
31:14.11
fungalboy
um But I would also think and I hope that that things are changing. I think that the the spirits industry in more general has been blessed in recent years to have people like yourself, ah Georgie Bell, um who we've had on the podcast, Rebecca Jago, a whole host of people who are really leading lights within the industry. And if if people are interested in this conversation, I think there's several other podcasts that we can go back and we can point people to. I might link in the show notes as well.
31:41.67
fungalboy
to other female leaders within the industry, both from a production and also from a, um you know, a journalism point of view. So Maggie, it's been an absolute pleasure to to chat to you.
31:53.45
fungalboy
um if If I was to ask for one quick tip, so you're a ninth generation Louvillian, is that right?
31:59.73
Maggie Kimberl
Oh, you said it correctly. Good job. Nobody ever gets it right.
32:02.04
fungalboy
oh
32:03.27
Maggie Kimberl
I will point to you um behind me on the wall. This is a print of a neon sign that we have downtown that is all the different ways that people pronounce Louisville.
32:14.99
Maggie Kimberl
There's only one correct way, which is Louisville, but Louisville.
32:15.05
fungalboy
Oh. Louisville.
32:19.42
Maggie Kimberl
Yeah. you have to If you hold the middle of your tongue and say it, that is the easiest way to teach people how to do it.
32:19.80
fungalboy
but
32:25.22
Maggie Kimberl
but Yes, it's Louisville, named for King Law.
32:28.14
fungalboy
ah Well, I have, ah I've done it once correctly, so I'm not going to risk it doing it again. But ah if people were to visit, what should people look out for? Where should they visit? The the Bourbon Trail has has become synonymous with, um you know, sort of people's bucket list and taking things off. So if people are looking to travel, and if they're looking to enter the Commonwealth of Kentucky, what should where should they go? and And what should they look up?
32:56.72
Maggie Kimberl
So I mean really any of the Bourbon Trail activities that you can do in in Kentucky are going to be fabulous. That has been a huge focal point for a lot of the distilleries in the last decade as kind of elevating those experiences.
33:11.16
Maggie Kimberl
But you can come to Louisville and you can spend you know like a four-day weekend so and and stay in Louisville and go to all these different distilleries, distillery tasting rooms. ah you know There are restaurants that are whiskey themed and bourbon bars and all kinds of things.
33:26.07
fungalboy
Not in the normal world.
33:27.36
Maggie Kimberl
ah you know We've got the Frasier History Museum downtown that has a ah great permanent exhibit about bourbon in Kentucky. ah There's just so much to do in Louisville, Kentucky. If you're a whiskey fan, I highly recommend it. And get in touch with me if you have any questions about where to go. I'm happy to help.
33:45.46
fungalboy
Perfect. That sets us up and transitions us beautifully to if people do want to get in touch, what's the best way to do it? How do we follow you? How do we support the journalism that you're creating?
33:57.78
Maggie Kimberl
I'm everywhere online at Lougirl502, L-O-U Girl 502. The best way to contact me is I have a contact form on my website, which is lougirl502.com on the about page. ah You can follow me on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, everywhere at Lougirl502. And you know I look forward to having a conversation with anybody.
34:23.39
fungalboy
Brilliant. Thank you so much. I have to ask though, why 502? Is that the area code?
34:29.35
Maggie Kimberl
That is the area code, yes.
34:30.41
fungalboy
a
34:33.21
Maggie Kimberl
I started this 11, 12 years ago, and that was the big thing was everybody was using their area codes for for things. So it's a little dated, but you know it it shows you how long I've been doing this.
34:47.30
fungalboy
oh Fantastic. Well, I'm delighted. I do remember ah drinking 312 by Goose Island, which was a Chicago beer at the time when I lived in Chicago.
34:54.42
Maggie Kimberl
Oh, yeah.
34:58.41
fungalboy
So yeah, I kind of guessed it might be the case. ah But look, we we know where you are. You're absolutely of your place and and embedded in your industry, but with that journalistic ah filter on on the quality and the content that you create.
35:11.63
fungalboy
So thank you so much ah for joining us and thank you very much, Mikey.
35:16.44
Maggie Kimberl
Thanks for having me.